Sugababes

[sunshineslave]

1 hour ago, Dax Diameter said:

I was lazily going by memory as I was in the supermarket getting groceries (without having back referenced), I since have which is why that was never actually posted.

The track “Paradise” dates from a later session with Oh Wonder in summer 2014.  They were looking for an illusive ‘Magic’ song that both the girls (and A&R) could unanimously agree was a sure fire smash, one that each party involved could (this time) unanimously agree on.

As “Flatline” had failed to fulfill its intended commercial purpose, no-one had a predisposition towards aligning their confidence behind the girls instincts  a second time. This was (some might say) understandably perceived by them as having an echo of how they were ‘handled’ back when they first entered the industry.

Certain executives have some rather questionable people handling skills at best, so for a particularly senior one to adopt an “I told you so” attitude when “Flatline” failed - proved to be a rather toxic approach that did precisely nothing to ingratiate the girls and bring everyone back into creative alignment, hence when those late efforts to find ‘Magic’ failed, the project was iced.

I can’t recall or profess I ever knew the minutiae of 60+ songs, after almost 10 years, no.

OK thank you for clearing all of this once again.

That's probably an unpopular opinion but I actually love Paradise and think it works very well as a second track (just after Flatline). That would work for a more indie approach to the album which would probably not work for the general public.

I do like the tracklist they intended for though. Boys do work as well as a second track, and gives a popier approach to the album. I think Beat Has Gone and Metal Heart are some of their best work so they would be great on the regular album rather than bonus tracks on the Deluxe edition but it's still great they decided to include them in some capacity.

Considering Flatline flopped because it was a wrong choice of single when we know it wasn't supported properly by the label (no radio plays, low budget video,...) is kinda unfair. I don't think it could beat any of their top selling singles but with the right promotion, the Sugababes name, and the right timing, it could have been an Overload level kind of success. I might be wrong tough as I never guess what's gonna be popular.

Edited November 14, 2022 by sunshineslave

[Poison ivy]

Regarding “Lay Down in swimming Pools”, It’s important to emphasise someone directly from the group (Keisha), confirming THAT was the version connected to the album, as for many years a portion of the wider fanbase have sworn blind faith in a belief (based on an old P.R. quote about “Lay down in swimming Pools” being “Just for fun at the end of a session”) - that “I Lay Down” was being used on the album instead!

Edited December 24, 2022 by Dax Diameter

[Heartbreak Anthem]

6 hours ago, Dax Diameter said:

Regarding “Lay Down in swimming Pools”, It’s important to emphasise someone directly from the group (Keisha), confirming THAT was the version connected to the album, as for many years a portion of the wider fanbase have sworn blind faith in a false belief (based on an old P.R. quote about “Lay down in swimming Pools” being “Just for fun at the end of a session”) - directly meaning there was a mythical, un-leaked, later version of “Lay Down”, being used on the album instead!

Ask: Asks for four songs.
Keisha: Gives two songs... girl.

[Heartbreak Anthem]

On 11/12/2022 at 3:25 PM, Dax Diameter said:

Contrary to fan logic/ wisdom, the album was titled “No Regrets!” (and not named after the 2013 tour).

Standard Edition [November 2013]

01, Flatline
02, Boys
03, I’m Alright
04, No Regrets!
05, Love In Stereo
06, Too In Love
07, Today
08, Summer of ‘99
09, Drum
10, Back in the Day
11, Love Me Hard
12, Lay Down in Swimming Pools

Re-Pack/ Deluxe Edition [May 2014]

13, Only You
14, Metal Heart
15, Beat has Gone

It pains me a lot that “Enough” never made the cut (as it is by far my own personal favourite track out of EVERY public domain track).

In fact there are several public domain tracks I personally prefer and whilst it is absolutely tempting to switch several out (with my own personal choices), in the end it would be a fools errand to mess with history by doing so.

The track list was an amalgamation of not only what the girls wanted & what Polydor U.K. wanted, but also what Interscope U.S. wanted, (a later U.S. launch was pencilled in for spring/ summer of 2014) with a U.K. tour to follow that autumn.

Despite what Biff Stannard has (for his own bitter reasons) led you to believe, the version of “Only You” that leaked was indeed final and would have launched the re-pack in April 2014.

Does anyone actually have these songs, by change?

[metalsnake25]

18 hours ago, Dax Diameter said:

Regarding “Lay Down in swimming Pools”, It’s important to emphasise someone directly from the group (Keisha), confirming THAT was the version connected to the album, as for many years a portion of the wider fanbase have sworn blind faith in a false belief (based on an old P.R. quote about “Lay down in swimming Pools” being “Just for fun at the end of a session”) - directly meaning there was a mythical, un-leaked, later version of “Lay Down”, being used on the album instead!

I would love for them to perform Beat Is Gone! It would sound so good live

[metalsnake25]

Does anyone know what happened to Heidi and Mutya's friendship? I remember reading an interview awhile back from Mutya saying that they haven't spoken since her departure.

[Poison ivy]

11 hours ago, metalsnake25 said:

Does anyone know what happened to Heidi and Mutya's friendship? I remember reading an interview awhile back from Mutya saying that they haven't spoken since her departure.

Heidi’s close business ties to Mark and Elliot Hargreaves (Crown), basically.

Unlike every other current (and former) member of the group, Heidi has continuously retained them as her legal representation for over 20 years, from the moment in 2001 when Sarah Stennett formally introduced her to the Hargreaves brothers (right up to the present day).

It is worth being aware It was Mark Hargreaves that Mutya was attempting to make a formal business stand against during her initial, febrile attempts to claim ANY level of legally recognised entitlement (that she possibly could), over the Sugababes trademark.

The un-named individual who Keisha sometimes alludes to, as attempting to “sabotage” 1.0/ MKS and tying them up, into all kinds of legal knots was (and to this day), remains Mark Hargreaves (there always was more going on legally behind the scenes than a simple battle for the name).

It would reduce 1.0/ MKS’s chances in various sealed and ongoing legal disputes and challenges from Crown, if they had someone directly in their environment (Heidi), who remains a business client of their legal challenger Mark Hargreaves (it would also make any financial negotiation with Mark Hargreaves, for Heidi’s services supremely toxic).

No-one knows exactly why Heidi keeps re-signing her contract with Crown (each time it comes up for renewal), but every time it does, she drags herself ever further away from being invited back into the fold as she knows (by re-signing with Crown on each occasion when she does), that she is directly pledging continued allegiance and loyalty to 1.0/ MKS’s sworn legal enemy, Mark Hargreaves.

Somewhat bizarrely, it is Jade (of all people) who is privately most communicative with (and supportive of) the original lineup, despite her previous working relationship with the others.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Dax Diameter
Syntax

[metalsnake25]

15 hours ago, Dax Diameter said:

Heidi’s close business ties to Mark and Elliot Hargreaves (Crown), basically.

Unlike every other current (and former) member of the group, Heidi has continuously retained them as her legal representation for over 20 years, from the moment in 2001 when Sarah Stennett formally introduced her to the Hargreaves brothers (right up to the present day).

It is worth being aware It was Mark Hargreaves that Mutya was attempting to make a formal business stand against during her initial, febrile attempts to claim ANY level of legally recognised entitlement (that she possibly could), over the Sugababes trademark.

The un-named individual who Keisha sometimes alludes to, as attempting to “sabotage” 1.0/ MKS and tying them up, into all kinds of legal knots was (and to this day), remains Mark Hargreaves (there always was more going on legally behind the scenes than a simple battle for the name).

It would reduce 1.0/ MKS’s chances in various sealed and ongoing legal disputes and challenges from Crown, if they had someone directly in their environment (Heidi), who remains a business client of their legal challenger Mark Hargreaves (it would also make any financial negotiation with Mark Hargreaves, for Heidi’s services supremely toxic).

No-one knows exactly why Heidi keeps re-signing her contract with Crown (each time it comes up for renewal), but every time it does, she drags herself ever further away from being invited back into the fold as she knows (by re-signing with Crown on each occasion when she does), that she is directly pledging continued allegiance and loyalty to 1.0/ MKS’s sworn legal enemy, Mark Hargreaves.

Somewhat bizarrely, it is Jade (of all people) who is privately most communicative with (and supportive of) the original lineup, despite her previous working relationship with the others.

Wow that is odd that Heidi still chooses to sign with them, isn't she pretty much retired at this point?

I wonder if it was all Mark and Elliott's doing to kick out Keisha and if Heidi and Amelle were caught in the middle?

Edited November 19, 2022 by metalsnake25

[metalsnake25]

15 hours ago, Dax Diameter said:

Heidi’s close business ties to Mark and Elliot Hargreaves (Crown), basically.

Unlike every other current (and former) member of the group, Heidi has continuously retained them as her legal representation for over 20 years, from the moment in 2001 when Sarah Stennett formally introduced her to the Hargreaves brothers (right up to the present day).

It is worth being aware It was Mark Hargreaves that Mutya was attempting to make a formal business stand against during her initial, febrile attempts to claim ANY level of legally recognised entitlement (that she possibly could), over the Sugababes trademark.

The un-named individual who Keisha sometimes alludes to, as attempting to “sabotage” 1.0/ MKS and tying them up, into all kinds of legal knots was (and to this day), remains Mark Hargreaves (there always was more going on legally behind the scenes than a simple battle for the name).

It would reduce 1.0/ MKS’s chances in various sealed and ongoing legal disputes and challenges from Crown, if they had someone directly in their environment (Heidi), who remains a business client of their legal challenger Mark Hargreaves (it would also make any financial negotiation with Mark Hargreaves, for Heidi’s services supremely toxic).

No-one knows exactly why Heidi keeps re-signing her contract with Crown (each time it comes up for renewal), but every time it does, she drags herself ever further away from being invited back into the fold as she knows (by re-signing with Crown on each occasion when she does), that she is directly pledging continued allegiance and loyalty to 1.0/ MKS’s sworn legal enemy, Mark Hargreaves.

Somewhat bizarrely, it is Jade (of all people) who is privately most communicative with (and supportive of) the original lineup, despite her previous working relationship with the others.

I also remember reading that when Amelle first joined and performed with Keisha and Mutya at CDUK or TOTP? Mutya was there to congratulate them but Heidi refused to see her.

[Poison ivy]

54 minutes ago, metalsnake25 said:

I wonder if it was all Mark and Elliott's doing to kick out Keisha and if Heidi and Amelle were caught in the middle?

No, it was Amelle who wanted Keisha gone. Over time her confidence became arrogance and she became vocal about wanting the same financial terms on all business agreements as Keisha.

Jade was initially supposed to replace Amelle and would have if Heidi had not sided with her and they both then proceeded to walk out together.

There was only one replacement waiting in the wings, so in the end Jade replaced Keisha to keep the group a trio.

Amelle had the choice to behave like a mature adult and elected not to, even when Keisha later invited her to the Cinema (along with Keisha’s boyfriend) to make amends, Amelle later told the press that she found Keisha’s attempts to make up with her “weird”.

Keisha since blocked her on her socials.

[metalsnake25]

1 hour ago, Dax Diameter said:

No, it was Amelle who wanted Keisha gone. Over time her confidence became arrogance and she became vocal about wanting the same financial terms on all business agreements as Keisha.

Jade was initially supposed to replace Amelle and would have if Heidi had not sided with her and they both then proceeded to walk out together.

There was only one replacement waiting in the wings, so in the end Jade replaced Keisha to keep the group a trio.

Amelle had the choice to behave like a mature adult and elected not to, even when Keisha later invited her to the Cinema (along with Keisha’s boyfriend) to make amends, Amelle later told the press that she found Keisha’s attempts to make up with her “weird”.

Keisha since blocked her on her socials.

Wow why did Heidi sided with her?

[Poison ivy]

12 minutes ago, metalsnake25 said:

Wow why did Heidi sided with her?

They were always tight from day one and had both come up through the stage school system, with Heidi adopting the role of older sister offering guidance and Amelle often staying overnight at Heidi’s house in Liverpool (before she later married and relocated to London).

Keisha tended not to socialise out of working hours (not for any nefarious reason, she simply liked her own space) and viewed that time as an opportunity to put work in maintaining her wider non industry friendship group. Heidi and Amelle just bonded and that only grew due to the amount of time they spent together when not working.

[metalsnake25]

2 hours ago, Dax Diameter said:

They were always tight from day one and had both come up through the stage school system, with Heidi adopting the role of older sister offering guidance and Amelle often staying overnight at Heidi’s house in Liverpool (before she later married and relocated to London).

Keisha tended not to socialise out of working hours (not for any nefarious reason, she simply liked her own space) and viewed that time as an opportunity to put work in maintaining her wider non industry friendship group. Heidi and Amelle just bonded and that only grew due to the amount of time they spent together when not working.

Well I'm glad Heidi and Keisha are on better terms; I do hope maybe one day her and Mutya might be able to make amends but it looks like it might not happen anytime soon.

[Poison ivy]

On 11/20/2022 at 5:44 AM, metalsnake25 said:

Well I'm glad Heidi and Keisha are on better terms; I do hope maybe one day her and Mutya might be able to make amends but it looks like it might not happen anytime soon.

Keisha and Heidi are on neutral terms. The current original lineup may never have had formal media training but at this point they have a vast level of first hand experience in dealing with them, as learned on the job.

They understandably do not want drama expressed via media pertaining to negativity associated with former group members so do their due diligence in placing a positive, public spin on dynamics with former members.

To be fair (in light of how later events played out as a consequence of decisions taken during that fateful trip to California), I do believe if Heidi had her time again she may have made a different choice as her decision to side with Amelle ultimately led to the end of the best days of her life.

It is odd looking back at this final moment in time as they attempt to launch what they think is going to be the first single from an eighth album, literally days away from reality hitting that the bubble had finally burst and it was all over (for them).

 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Dax Diameter

[Heartbreak Anthem]

24 minutes ago, Dax Diameter said:

Keisha and Heidi are on neutral terms. The current original lineup may never have had formal media training but at this point they have a vast level of first hand experience in dealing with them, as learned on the job.

They understandably do not want drama expressed via media pertaining to negativity associated with former group members so do their due diligence in placing a positive, public spin on dynamics with former members.

To be fair (in light of how later events played out as a consequence of decisions taken during that fateful trip to California), I do believe if Heidi had her time again she may have made a different choice as her decision to side with Amelle ultimately led to the end of the best days of her life.

It is odd looking back at this final moment in time as they attempt to launch what they think is going to be the first single from an eighth album, literally days away from reality hitting that the bubble had finally burst and it was all over (for them).

 

I'm sad we never got the RCA UK album. But, I get why it ended. Shame, because 4.0 had some amazing chances!