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24 minutes ago, Otaku said:

I feel like their last 2, maybe even 3 albums were trademarked by not committing to a certain direction enough. I mean, their albums were always versatile, but on those later albums it just seemed like the label wanted to experiment a lot producer-wise, but didn't actually want to take any chances. So they tried to use a similar format to their albums, but the tracks themselves seemed  to get increasingly safe and increasingly dull. I feel like going with big name US producers was a fine move in theory...I just wonder where all the good songs are. There's just 0 creativity.

...I almost wonder if WE didn't get the CDR full of rejects that Jade got 😶 REALLY makes me wonder just what was cut.

There's a bunch on YouTube, just search "keisha buchanan solo" or something. Pretty sure the 2 or so I have are on there. Surely some Sugababes stan has more though...

We never got much in the way of leaks from them, aside from the mass MKS leaks obviously. Luckily Hot Under The Collar leaked, but there must be tons of known (registered etc) and unknown unreleased stuff...

As for her being a bitch or not...I know what you mean, but personally to me she's always come across as bitchy enough to leave that as the main impression so 🤷‍♂️ all things considered there's enough to support the theory that she's not exactly easy to deal with at the very least

Ehh, I would say Catfights and Spotlights had a definite direction, it just wasn't a direction I particularly cared for :cackle: The Amy Winehouse vibe is fun but I just didn't think the choruses or melodies were strong enough on that album for it to be a Sugababes classic. I guess their Americanisation paid off with Dallas Austin, but I I agree that their lack of songwriting and bland producers meant Sweet 7 had very little creativity in general. It probably didn't help that the girls didn't even know what their relationship or direction was like after Jade joined the band but had to go ahead with an album that was previously made with someone else in mind anyway.

I'll check out the Keisha solo songs! Interested to see what she has up her sleeve!

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20 hours ago, Otaku said:

 

Yeah I do believe that's at least part of it. I'm not saying the media weren't at all to blamce, but playing the race card is also very easy. Siobhan basically did all the lead vocals on Overload, so it would make sense that their introduction greatly affected that.

And while she was obviously also the most introverted and reserved of the 3, there's little doubt in my mind doubt that she's also by far the most intelligent one. Not that the other 2 are simple, but a quick listen to/glance at the lyrics of Siobhan's debut album (written/recorded when she was only 18/19), and comparing it to Mutya's album recorded years later with only co-writing (with established pop writers, and not exactly deep stuff overall) says a lot.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Mutya doesn't have it in her to write a good song or anything, obviously she wrote the majority  if not all of at least Maya. And it's not really fair to compare them because they walk completely different paths musically. But personal taste aside (cause admittedly I worship Siobhan's debut album), comparing Siobhan & Mutya's songwriting skills & creativity does tell you a thing or two about them and the difference between them.

The other 2 were a bit more superficial and inherently outspoken, and also just the fact that she was a soft-spoken 'still waters' type pale ginger girl in what was probably considered an R&B group (with poppy elements of course, but definitely much more Urban than downright Pop...lots of garage influences etc. Also, what pop girl group has 3 members? That's an R&B girl group thing). So perhaps it was the fact that she was so different from the other 2, but also your average singer, that also attracted more (probably unwanted) attention from some interviewers etc.

Clearly Keisha is also a capable songwriter, and although she claims she's not a fan of the poppier Sugababes stuff, she does seem to be best at writing it. It always sort of seemed to me like she didn't really know what she wants - like she says in the interview posted in this topic, she loves the whole poppy synchronized dance move thing, dressing up in the same outfits etc but she's also the loud, outspoken & clearly most bitchy one. I think maybe she's just sort of conflicted about herself and having been famous from an early age only added to that, like maybe she doesn't quite know how to reconcile wanting to be a famous singer with being herself. She's tough & Urban but also kinda girly & Disney in a way. And I'm guessing that applies to a lot of aspects of her personality

We know she wrote a lot for the Sugababes, but as far as I know we had barely a handful of solo songs by her leak, that were pretty generic and lacked any clear direction. Kind of cheap-sounding really, and she clearly wasn't only recording stuff she (co-)wrote. More Urban-sounding obviously, but mostly stuff that wouldn't even be THAT out of place on some of the later Sugababes albums. So it's hard to say exactly what a solo Keisha project would be like. I'm curious though - supposedly she recorded over 50 tracks and it was to be mostly produced by Future Cut at some point. And they would have a bunch of Rihanna & Rita Ora etc rejects sitting in the fridge at the time...

To what extent Keisha was a bully we can't ever really know, but it takes little speculation to arrive at the conclusion that she's difficult and just kind of a bitch at the very least. She's probably just very self-involved and lacks a good deal of empathy, and Siobhan is (or at least was) clearly very sensitive. At any rate, it was just a match made in hell for girls their age in those circumstances, especially ones that don't exactly fit the pop star/girl group mold.

Just like Nicole in PCD...it just doesn't work when you're very sensitive to be in a group like that. You might be able to pull it off, (with lots of success even), but in the long run it's just not a healthy situation. Being in a group like that probably isn't healthy for most sane people, let alone very sensitive ones. But it gave them their boosts to varying degrees of success, and isn't that what pretty much anybody joins a boy/girl group for in the end?

I do agree on all you said. I think Siobhan is the deepest one and the most sensitive. 

and thanks for the infos on the reconrding process.

 

17 hours ago, Leaving said:

I'm not sure that's entirely fair to Heidi. She's never had solo material so it's hard to say, but I know that Stronger was inspired by the time she left her family to join the band so I wouldn't be surprised if she was a lead writer on that. I know Keisha definitely took a larger hand later on, but I think up until at least Catfights and Spotlights Heidi (and Mutya, and to an extent Amelle) were all earning their songwriting credits. Honestly, I can't imagine Keisha writing some of Heidi's lyrics on Push the Button or Ugly, and I always thought Heidi was pretty instrumental in bringing the more poppy sound and image to the group too.

You're right. I definitely think Heidi contributed to the change of sound and I think she contributed a lot creatively. I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere that each girl wrote their own verse in Round Round so she definitely used to write actual lyrics but we can't be sure on most of their work during the time of their agreement. 

She most probably pitched ideas and gave input to what was produced in Catfight but wasn't credited because she didn't provide actual words for those songs. It doesn't mean that the songs would have been the same without her. There's a lot that someone can provide to the creative process by being there and contributing without actually providing concrete material by oneself. It's all about the energy they bring, the ideas,... 

By the way, Ugly is a good exemple because it's such a personal song for the girls that talk about their experiences yet they didn't write it themselves. It was still written from their personal experience. 

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7 hours ago, Leaving said:

Ehh, I would say Catfights and Spotlights had a definite direction, it just wasn't a direction I particularly cared for :cackle: The Amy Winehouse vibe is fun but I just didn't think the choruses or melodies were strong enough on that album for it to be a Sugababes classic. I guess their Americanisation paid off with Dallas Austin, but I I agree that their lack of songwriting and bland producers meant Sweet 7 had very little creativity in general. It probably didn't help that the girls didn't even know what their relationship or direction was like after Jade joined the band but had to go ahead with an album that was previously made with someone else in mind anyway.

I'll check out the Keisha solo songs! Interested to see what she has up her sleeve!

Catfights and Spotlights was not a Sugababes album, even they knew it. No one knew it had come out. Something happened, because they never intended to release an album in 2008. During the Change Tour timeframe, they revealed they would not go back into the studio until September 2008 for a 2009 release; sessions for this album lasted two-months (June to August 2008). So the album was rushed; their quickest-produced album, and it shows in the final product. I mean, even on the album cover, it's not a collective group shot; it's a composite of three solo images merged into one group. :spy:

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All 27 Sugababes singles ranked definitively from worst to best

sb-e1631012895459-940x480.jpeg

via TheTab

  1. Freak like Me
  2. Overload
  3. Flatline
  4. Round Round
  5. Too Lost in You
  6. Run for Cover
  7. Hole in the Head
  8. About You Now
  9. In the Middle
  10. Angel with Dirty Faces
  11. Denial
  12. Push the Button
  13. Stronger
  14. New Year
  15. Soul Sound
  16. Shape
  17. About a Girl
  18. Red Dress
  19. Ugly
  20. Caught in a Moment
  21. Wear My Kiss
  22. Easy
  23. Get Sexy
  24. Follow Me Home
  25. Change
  26. Girls
  27. No Can Do
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18 hours ago, sunshineslave said:

You're right. I definitely think Heidi contributed to the change of sound and I think she contributed a lot creatively. I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere that each girl wrote their own verse in Round Round so she definitely used to write actual lyrics but we can't be sure on most of their work during the time of their agreement. 

She most probably pitched ideas and gave input to what was produced in Catfight but wasn't credited because she didn't provide actual words for those songs. It doesn't mean that the songs would have been the same without her. There's a lot that someone can provide to the creative process by being there and contributing without actually providing concrete material by oneself. It's all about the energy they bring, the ideas,... 

By the way, Ugly is a good exemple because it's such a personal song for the girls that talk about their experiences yet they didn't write it themselves. It was still written from their personal experience. 

Yeah, the party line back in the day was always that they each divvied up the first verse, second verse and bridge and then went to separate corners of the room to write their own solos. Afaik they did that with Stronger, where the chorus was already written by someone else, and Push the Button where Keisha and Dallas Austin wrote the chorus and each girl wrote their own solos. Of course, Keisha later said that Mutya barely wrote any of her own solos on that album, so who actually knows :cackle: But I got the impression C&S was maybe the first time they wrote things in separate rooms, maybe because they weren't getting along as well as they used to

15 hours ago, Heartbreak Anthem said:

Catfights and Spotlights was not a Sugababes album, even they knew it. No one knew it had come out. Something happened, because they never intended to release an album in 2008. During the Change Tour timeframe, they revealed they would not go back into the studio until September 2008 for a 2009 release; sessions for this album lasted two-months (June to August 2008). So the album was rushed; their quickest-produced album, and it shows in the final product. I mean, even on the album cover, it's not a collective group shot; it's a composite of three solo images merged into one group. :spy:

That is interesting :orly: I wouldn't be surprised if Keisha was the main proponent for the C&S album, which is why the label didn't let her write on the next album and I guess why they weren't so upset when she left

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On 9/1/2022 at 6:07 PM, Heartbreak Anthem said:

Heidi Range's arrival into Sugababes definitely gave them a more mainstream appeal. I cannot imagine the sound of "Freak like Me" with 1.0 at all!

What happened was one of the A&R team at Island socialised at underground dance clubs in London. As a consequence of his social life spent in attendance at these underground clubs, he became aware of this specific mashup getting heavy rotation by the capital’s coolest DJ’s:

As a result, Island wanted their new act (Sugababes) to get on the track and researched the producer behind it.  Island believed that an edit - in conjunction to a promo campaign (fronted by their new signing) would push the track (and by association their act) - above the underground club scene and propel it into the mainstream pop charts:

However, at the specific point in time when Island reached out to the track’s producer (Virgin signing Richard X) - unbeknown to Island, Richard was working on his own album:

https://www.discogs.com/master/6901-Richard-X-Presents-His-X-Factor-Vol-1

Richard had been inspired to create other mashups for it and was pissed off because after reaching out to U.S. R&B singer Adina Howard and attempting to convince her to come over to the U.K. to promote his mashup of her old track “Freak Like Me” (that sampled Gary Newman’s “Are Friends Electric”) - she had turned him down as she was not keen to promote (what was to her) a seven year old single she made on a (by that time) former label she had long since discovered was withholding royalties from her.

At the point Island contacted Richard (via Virgin), Richard was more interested in finding a way to circumvent Adina Howard, whilst still getting a chart hit with her track. It would have gone to his faceless studio vocalist “Girls on Top”, if Island had not coincidentally came calling at what transpired to be an opportune moment in time (for both parties).

Richard told Island that if they agreed for their new signing (Sugababes), to take the place of Adina Howard on HER track that he wanted on HIS album - that he (in exchange), would agree to produce the Whitney mash-up for Sugababes.

However, when Island A&R team heard the results of Richard’s recording session with Sugababes - they knew in an instant they were listening to a potential hit that stood head & shoulders above their own original single choice (the Whitney mashup) and with a bit of finessing (in the remix department) - it stood a higher degree of being one.

It occasionally gets suggested the unused Whitney mashup (with Sugababes on vocals) may well be in the Virgin vaults (somewhere Sugababes were never signed to - but Richard was).

Either way, in the aftermath of the unexpected level of success generated by “Freak Like Me”, Richard’s album was reconfigured as Virgin then realised they had missed a trick and if they had instead been on the ball - would have got their own signing (Liberty X), to vocal the track and have a hit with it instead.

Obviously Richard was Hot shit at that point and not to be outdone, Virgin eventually sold the idea to Liberty X’s management of getting them on board Richard’s album - on what was to be the follow up single (a concept not considered by either party until after “Freak Like Me” had already been a hit).

London records were the ultimate losers though, as their A&R never understood or found acceptable the concept of Sugababes shifting that far away from the R&B genre - so when London A&R team were confronted with the realisation that a group THEY were convinced were destined to flop and had no future, were suddenly No. 1 in the charts (followed by yet another No. 1 single and then a hit album) - they did not take it too well and quickly came to regret the decision to prematurely release Sugababes from their deal with them.

Edited by Dax Diameter
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23 hours ago, Heartbreak Anthem said:

All 27 Sugababes singles ranked definitively from worst to best

sb-e1631012895459-940x480.jpeg

via TheTab

  1. Freak like Me
  2. Overload
  3. Flatline
  4. Round Round
  5. Too Lost in You
  6. Run for Cover
  7. Hole in the Head
  8. About You Now
  9. In the Middle
  10. Angel with Dirty Faces
  11. Denial
  12. Push the Button
  13. Stronger
  14. New Year
  15. Soul Sound
  16. Shape
  17. About a Girl
  18. Red Dress
  19. Ugly
  20. Caught in a Moment
  21. Wear My Kiss
  22. Easy
  23. Get Sexy
  24. Follow Me Home
  25. Change
  26. Girls
  27. No Can Do

Any Sugababes singles ranking that does NOT automatically place “In The Middle” at No. 27 by default, is automatically invalid (in my view) 😂

 

Edited by Dax Diameter
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9 hours ago, Leaving said:

That is interesting :orly: I wouldn't be surprised if Keisha was the main proponent for the C&S album, which is why the label didn't let her write on the next album and I guess why they weren't so upset when she left

It all seems fishy, and something definitely happening behind-the-scenes. In May of 2008, they said they scrapped album plans because they write their own material and don't buy it from songwriters, plus the fear they would produce an album that was not up to their usual standards. Keisha told press: “We were supposed to release an album this year and we decided against it. With each album we feel we’ve produced a better one when we have been given time to write about stuff, and we have been through so much this year alone. I think sometimes people forget we do write our own material. Even when we have a co-writer, we’re writing the bulk of the song.” The next month, Keisha (surprise surprise) revealed they were re-entering the studio on June 17, due to opportunities to work with new producers. Then, by August, we had "Girls," which was presented to Island by Melvin Kuiters & Si Hulbert.

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On 9/3/2022 at 2:04 PM, Dax Diameter said:

What happened was one of the A&R team at Island socialised at underground dance clubs in London. As a consequence of his social life spent in attendance at these underground clubs, he became aware of this specific mashup getting heavy rotation by the capital’s coolest DJ’s:

...

I would be curious to head the Whitney mashup with polishement and the babes on vocals. I'm still happy we got Freak like me instead because this is kind of weird.

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13 minutes ago, sunshineslave said:

I would be curious to head the Whitney mashup with polishement and the babes on vocals. I'm still happy we got Freak like me instead because this is kind of weird.

Agreed, in comparison the hooks just aren’t even there. Which makes it easier to understand why Island went with “Freak”.

Edited by Dax Diameter
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Any of you guys have informations about the tracklist of the MKS album? I heard that Siobhan posted some temporary tracklists and that there's also a final one but I don't know how true that is.

Also do you know why Emily Sandé took her songs back, have anyone heard them in any form (sung by Emily Sandé or Sugababes) ? 

 

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3 hours ago, sunshineslave said:

Any of you guys have informations about the tracklist of the MKS album? I heard that Siobhan posted some temporary tracklists and that there's also a final one but I don't know how true that is.

Also do you know why Emily Sandé took her songs back, have anyone heard them in any form (sung by Emily Sandé or Sugababes) ? 

 

What’s not controversial to say is “Be Kind” was also an Emeli Sande track and was submitted along with “Love Like This”, yet “Be Kind” made it out. Also the album was never at any point ever going to share the same name as the tour. Such a shame nothing ever leaked in lossless.

Edited by Dax Diameter
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On 9/4/2022 at 12:22 AM, Heartbreak Anthem said:

It all seems fishy, and something definitely happening behind-the-scenes. In May of 2008, they said they scrapped album plans because they write their own material and don't buy it from songwriters, plus the fear they would produce an album that was not up to their usual standards. Keisha told press: “We were supposed to release an album this year and we decided against it. With each album we feel we’ve produced a better one when we have been given time to write about stuff, and we have been through so much this year alone. I think sometimes people forget we do write our own material. Even when we have a co-writer, we’re writing the bulk of the song.” The next month, Keisha (surprise surprise) revealed they were re-entering the studio on June 17, due to opportunities to work with new producers. Then, by August, we had "Girls," which was presented to Island by Melvin Kuiters & Si Hulbert.

Honestly, I'm not at all mad at Keisha for wanting the girls to write their own songs and make their own money off the publishing :cackle: I just wish she'd grabbed better producers and co-writers than the ones they did C&S with

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16 minutes ago, Leaving said:

Honestly, I'm not at all mad at Keisha for wanting the girls to write their own songs and make their own money off the publishing :cackle: I just wish she'd grabbed better producers and co-writers than the ones they did C&S with

Well, a rush job is a rush job. "Girls" is not a Sugababes lead single, either.

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