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Tweener

Is Micheal Jackson guilty?

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I have watched recently "Leaving Neverland" and I have doubts. The case has never really been settled. Its history is very long. But I wonder about your opinion. Was Michael Jackson a pedophile or not?

I really liked some of his sons and he was a genius when it comes to music, but lately, I can't enjoy his music anymore thinking of all the stuff he allegedly did. Tell me your opinions :) 

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I have not seen the Documentary.  And I am not sure I will.  But here are a few facts that we know are not in dispute:

He did pay one of the families...What was it?  Like...$25,000,000 dollars.  And settled numerous other Law Suits for various amounts.  Now, I know that does not equate to guilt.  But it does lead one to wonder. 

He was also known to have sleepovers with underage kids without the parents being present.  And apparently had them sleep in his bed with him.  Who would do that?  Food for thought.

Corey Heim has recently came out and said that as much time as he spent with Michael Jackson, that he was never abused by him.  But he has stated before that he knows first hand of many others in Hollywood that are into some weird stuff.  Including young kids.  

on the other hand:

Macaulie Caulkin (forgive the spelling) has come out recently and started naming names of people in Hollywood that he claims to know first hand are into young kids.  But at this time, that I know of, he has not spoken out about Michael Jackson.  With whom he spent quite a bit of time with from my understanding.  Just a guess, but that could have something to do with why he got so messed up with drugs and stuff.   

There are a lot of things about Michael Jackson that we will probably never find out.  But on this issue, I do believe the truth will eventually come out.  Only time will tell.

 

 

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Culkin admitted recently that there was nothing between him and Michael. But would Micheal be so stupid to actually put his hands on such a thriving and famous actor? It would be the death of his career. His "victims" are not known to public children. If they came out with accusatiions (like some did) people would think it was for money only. And they did. 

The fact Micheal paid them to end the trial only proves that he was scared of going further into this as it might have affected his career and he could go to jail.

 

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I was actually talking about this with my friend at work today! It really is an interesting situation, and I'm in very split minds about it.

On the one hand, I can't see why these two men would come forward with their stories when there's really no incentive of fame or money in it for them. If anything, if all they wanted was money it would be smarter for them to take his estate to court and try and make some money out of a lawsuit instead of signing onto a documentary which I don't believe they got paid for.

On the other hand, the FBI conducted a criminal investigation into MJ for over ten years and didn't find any evidence to charge him with. Given that this was such a big case and he was such a famous man, I can imagine they would have been using every tool and worker at their disposal in order to find some kind of evidence, so the fact they didn't should say something about his innocence.

Either way, I question if there's really any point for me in watching the documentary. Michael has been dead for many years and he has no ability to defend himself against these claims. Given that he's dead and the two guys really have no way of proving things one way or another, all this documentary is really doing is upsetting people and destroying their positive memories which may be associated with his music.

With that said, if I had to go with my gut instinct I would guess that he's guilty. These rumours have been going around for as long as I can remember, and I would have to imagine that where there's smoke there's fire.

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I believe Michael Jackson was guilty myself. I've gone back and forth about this for many years, but hearing James Safechuck talk about his experiences in the documentary sealed the deal for me. He seems incredibly vulnerable and affected by his experiences that it's difficult for me to have any doubt. I believe Wade Robson, too, but it seemed to me that he's further along the healing process and was able to talk about it without as much emotional response as James showed. Generally, I think most people will agree that at best Michael was a wildly inappropriate man without any sense of regular boundaries, and at worst he was a child abuser who used his fame and wealth to prey on children and their families. Either way it doesn't look great.

Edited by coolaideonfire

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15 hours ago, Tweener said:

Culkin admitted recently that there was nothing between him and Michael. But would Micheal be so stupid to actually put his hands on such a thriving and famous actor? It would be the death of his career. His "victims" are not known to public children. If they came out with accusatiions (like some did) people would think it was for money only. And they did. 

The fact Micheal paid them to end the trial only proves that he was scared of going further into this as it might have affected his career and he could go to jail.

 

I feel like there are many reasons why Michael would have chosen not to abuse certain people, and I'm happy to believe Macaulay when he says he wasn't abused by Michael (just as I would be happy to believe him if that was to change one day). Just because someone is a predator doesn't mean they'll abuse every child that comes into contact with them so because some people say he wasn't abusive towards them doesn't mean he wasn't abusive towards others. Also, I wonder if having a friendship with certain children was actually beneficial to Michael in the long run - after all Macaulay was a huge star at the time, there was nothing Michael could provide that he didn't already have access to in his position so the typical way Michael groomed children would be ineffective, but having a completely platonic and appropriate friendship with him was good for Michael's defence in the end (as appropriate as an adult man being 'friends' with a child can be, anyway).

Edited by coolaideonfire

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13 hours ago, coolaideonfire said:

I believe Michael Jackson was guilty myself. I've gone back and forth about this for many years, but hearing James Safechuck talk about his experiences in the documentary sealed the deal for me. He seems incredibly vulnerable and affected by his experiences that it's difficult for me to have any doubt. I believe Wade Robson, too, but it seemed to me that he's further along the healing process and was able to talk about it without as much emotional response as James showed. Generally, I think most people will agree that at best Michael was a wildly inappropriate man without any sense of regular boundaries, and at worst he was a child abuser who used his fame and wealth to prey on children and their families. Either way it doesn't look great. 

While I don't disagree with you on the whole, I do think it's sad that we have to view Michael as "wildly inappropriate". There's nothing inherently wrong with him choosing the company of children, especially given everything he went through himself as a child. I think he felt as though he had no real childhood and so tried to live vicariously through these kids - which, if directed in the right way, could be an attitude that would do a whole lot of good for people.

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I don't know what to think.. but something surely had to happen what grown adult man has kids sleeping in his bed with him? That's just not normal..

Edited by kallumlavigne

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3 hours ago, Skinny Legend said:

While I don't disagree with you on the whole, I do think it's sad that we have to view Michael as "wildly inappropriate". There's nothing inherently wrong with him choosing the company of children, especially given everything he went through himself as a child. I think he felt as though he had no real childhood and so tried to live vicariously through these kids - which, if directed in the right way, could be an attitude that would do a whole lot of good for people.

I don't disagree, but I don't think Michael's behaviour is something to be championed either, lol - inviting other people's children into his bedroom, to share his bed, night after night is inappropriate no matter what his past might have been. I agree that adult/child relationships can be beneficial though, and from my own experience working with children in the past often times I feel a positive adult role model is what children need the most but these relationships can be formed in more appropriate ways.

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It was known for years that there was something wrong with this man and his relationship with children. But people used to put that aside because he was and still is such an icon in the music industry so why now? Why bringing up this case 10 years after his passing? I haven't watched the documentary yet so I still don't have a clear opinion about the whole situation. But he's clearly not innocent. Anyways stream Janet's Made For Now.

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15 hours ago, nanapop99 said:

It was known for years that there was something wrong with this man and his relationship with children. But people used to put that aside because he was and still is such an icon in the music industry so why now? Why bringing up this case 10 years after his passing? I haven't watched the documentary yet so I still don't have a clear opinion about the whole situation. But he's clearly not innocent. Anyways stream Janet's Made For Now.

In the film, the two guys explain that they didn't realise it was abusive until their adulthood because as children it was presented as "love" and they enjoyed making Michael happy. It felt like a mutual thing that they were a part of as much as Michael. Wade shared in the film that it wasn't until he had a child of his own that he realised how vulnerable he himself was as a child. It's also very common for survivors to have a complicated relationship with their abuser, wanting to keep the secret and protect them, and it can take years to fully process that what happened was wrong because of all this. I'm curious to see if there'll be more allegations following this - a German fan already came out in January to say although he wasn't molested, Michael Jackson was inappropriate towards him in the way he behaved and gifted him a copy a book featuring photographs of naked children: 

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On 3/11/2019 at 11:57 PM, coolaideonfire said:

I don't disagree, but I don't think Michael's behaviour is something to be championed either, lol - inviting other people's children into his bedroom, to share his bed, night after night is inappropriate no matter what his past might have been. I agree that adult/child relationships can be beneficial though, and from my own experience working with children in the past often times I feel a positive adult role model is what children need the most but these relationships can be formed in more appropriate ways.

Idk, I read once that Brad and Angelina used to sleep with all of their kids in one big bed, and I thought it was the cutest thing I ever heard. I don't think it's that much of a leap from Brangelina sleeping with their adopted children to Michael sleeping with kids he might have thought of as his own children.

I guess I would just hate to think that incidents and allegations like this would make people nervous about giving love or support to kids, regardless of whether it's their children or not. I know even for me I sometimes feel nervous walking past schools because I worry that people will see me and think I'm trying to prey on their children or something. :stretcher: It's a totally irrational fear and no one's ever actually said anything to me. But I just don't want to have a culture of distance between adults and children because people are worried about being accused of pedophilia.

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3 hours ago, Skinny Legend said:

Idk, I read once that Brad and Angelina used to sleep with all of their kids in one big bed, and I thought it was the cutest thing I ever heard. I don't think it's that much of a leap from Brangelina sleeping with their adopted children to Michael sleeping with kids he might have thought of as his own children.

I guess I would just hate to think that incidents and allegations like this would make people nervous about giving love or support to kids, regardless of whether it's their children or not. I know even for me I sometimes feel nervous walking past schools because I worry that people will see me and think I'm trying to prey on their children or something. :stretcher: It's a totally irrational fear and no one's ever actually said anything to me. But I just don't want to have a culture of distance between adults and children because people are worried about being accused of pedophilia.

I wish there was a love-heart reaction we could use to show empathy and support, because I don't have much to say here, but I hear you and want you to know that. <3

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9 hours ago, coolaideonfire said:

I wish there was a love-heart reaction we could use to show empathy and support, because I don't have much to say here, but I hear you and want you to know that. <3

<3<3<3<3<3 

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